Chargebacks

ELENA_DICRISCI1
Tourist
6 0 2

We just lost a little over 3K to chargebacks with Shopify payments in the past 3 months. My issue is specifically related to brick-and-mortar shop, where most of our sales come from (not online shop). I made this transition to have Shopify online store and Shopify POS check out for our brick-and-mortar location to have easy inventory management for both stores. We've been in business for 35 years and only 2 years online. While online store still needs a lot of work and isn't yet profitable, it has some nice options to prevent chargebacks, like Riskified app. I know quite a bit about cc processing and chargebacks from my experience.

My problem today is with Shopify team not being able or willing to help to resolve the issue - dead end! When chargebacks arrive, Shopify does not provide any information on the card holder, card number, name, the reason for dispute, date of purchase, etc.. unlike processing banks, when we deal with them directly. By the way, we as shop owners are entitled to this information.

After I called Shopify a dozen of times I received identical answers to the following questions:

Me: Can I get information on this chargeback?

Shopify guru: We don't have any additional info since we dont process credit cards.

Me: Who can i speak to?

Shopify guru: credit card company directly.

Me: Can i please have our 10-didgit merchant account (not 8-didgit alphanumeric shopify account you provided earlier), as requested by credit card company?

Shopify guru: I'm sorry this is the only number.

Me: Can I speak to someone who has answers for me, your supervisor or manager?

Shopify guru: I dont have the ability to transfer the calls.

Me: What about your processing bank?

Shopify guru: Stripe.

Me: What is their number?

Shopify guru: i'm not finding it.

Yes, this is seriously happening right now and my recorded Shopify logs can prove it. By the way, I found number for Stripe and called them, but they were unable to help me with credentials provided by Shopify.

Bottom line-- I lost 3 chargebacks with over 3K in sales in the last few months with today's technology and information availability! I only lost one in 5 years using old-fashioned cc machines and no ID scanners before switching to Shopify payments!

And, I still don't have an answer!

Anne_M
Shopify Staff
Shopify Staff
498 1 59

Hi Elena,

My name is Anne, on the Guru team. It sounds like you are going through a really tough time with this!

All chargebacks on Shopify Payments are visible in your store admin, and are challenged through the admin so it is odd they they would not show up if they went through our payment gateway.

It sounds from your message here that these specifc payments may have been taken on an external card reader to your Shopify admin, would that be correct? And that they are marked as external payments so they can't be viewed in your admin by you or a Guru? I am really sorry if this wasn't explained sufficently to you to challenge the chargebacks on your external gateway.

Can you let me know who your external card reader has been provided by so I can point you in the right directlon and get you the assistance you need?

Thanks so much Elena.

Warm regards,

Anne 

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ELENA_DICRISCI1
Tourist
6 0 2

Hello Anne,

thank you for your response! All three chargebacks are related to internal credit card processing method with shopify provided swiper. Like you said, notifications of new chargebacks, as well as lost chargebacks, pop up in admin. I'm looking for additional info, the reason for dispute, the name of the person disputing it, the reason for lost chargeback, the option to re-open lost chargeback, etc..

In one of transactions for ****, the credit card swiped was **** ending in ****, but information from your gateway says it was processed as **** ending in ****  ---- which is ABSURD! Again, all this info is available in Shopify admin under transaction history, after the fact that transaction is process and merchandise is issued! What I want to know is why some credit cards are processed, when it clearly shouldn't be!  Shopify gurus are clueless about this subject and can not provide any detail! Therefore, I need to speak to a competent person from processing bank. Please advise how to proceed.

Regards,

Elena DiCriscio

 

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Anne_M
Shopify Staff
Shopify Staff
498 1 59

Hi Elena,

Thanks for coming back to me here, I understand that this is really upsetting for you.

All the chargeback information that Shopify have received from a cardholders bank is shown the order itself when a chargeback is initiated. The customer information that's available in the order is that which was added at the checkout, when the customer made the purchase.

If a cardholders bank issues a chargeback as fraudulent for example, then the customer information isn't going to be correct, however the cardholders bank would not have to share the cardholders personal information with Shopify to make the chargeback for data protection reasons.

Once the issuing card holders bank has settled the chargeback in favour of the customer, Shopify don't have the means to reopen this for you, so its really important to ensure that all relevant data is entered at the initial stages. At this point there isn't anything that you can do to follow this up, as the bank have made their judgement.

Sadly chargebacks are a risk with selling online with any platform (just like shoplifting is to a physical location). We will do our best to help you reduce that risk. I would suggest reading this document carefully https://docs.shopify.com/manual/more/shopify-payments/fraud-prevention and using an app like fraud filter for online sales to ensure that you are able to review risky orders https://apps.shopify.com/fraud-filter.

For POS sales, using the EMV card reader will require customers to use a chip and a PIN card to purchase. These cards are being implemented across the United States since October of this year. Chip cards make it virtually impossible to counterfeit cards, and require a PIN, helping to eliminate fraud. A chip terminal should go far in reducing card fraud- https://www.shopify.com/pos/emv.

This information may also be useful- http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/emv-faq-chip-cards-answers-1264.php

The last four digits of a card number can be viewed in the order history and should match that which you mentioned here from my investigations, however I appreciate that you may be seeing something else. Please would you mind reviewing the card number in the order history, and emailing us if you see any discrepencies?

Thanks Elena,

Anne

support@shopify.com

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ELENA_DICRISCI1
Tourist
6 0 2

Anne,

thank you again for your response!

Actually, banks do provide this information to merchants, at least when you deal with them directly. Before Shopify we were processing with Capitol Payments directly, no middleman. All chargebacks were mailed to us, stating 800 numbers for their fraud department, detailed info on transaction, as well as cardholders information.

We are not new to accepting credit cards and we take all the necessary precautions and more to prevent them from happening. We also ordered EMV reader with Shopify back in September, but it hasn't yet shipped (supposedly still on backorder)!!!

I sent multiple emails to Shopify support regarding **** transaction, where information from your gateway shows that the credit card swiped was **** ending in ****, but processed as **** ending in ****. This record is in your system -- look it up! I was also told several times that this issue will be escalated to billing, but no answer --- DEAD END!

I understand the cost factor of running a business, but I refuse to accept losses based on processing bank error! How can it be, that we lost 3 out of 3 chargebacks in one month with shopify? We've been doing retail/ accepting credit cards for over 30 years now. Five years prior to switching to Shopify we were with Capitol Payments we lost only one chargeback due to clerks error! Is it better to use our previous processing bank as external method of payment instead of Stripe that uses Shopify as middleman?

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Anne_M
Shopify Staff
Shopify Staff
498 1 59

Hi Elena,

Thanks for posting! I have emailed you back directly via our support email address to discuss the more sensitive information further, thanks so much!

Chat soon and warm regards,

Anne :)

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ELENA_DICRISCI1
Tourist
6 0 2

Hi Anne,

I thank you for taking the time to listen to our conversation recordings with Shopify! 

Now that you're aware of what exactly happened, i would like to continue discussing the subject of "chargebacks" via Shopify forums. Of course you can email us, should you need to share any sensitive data.

 

It's been over 3 months since fraudulent transaction was approved, but I'm still looking to hear back from anyone about that credit card authorization mess. Would you please give me approximate time?

 

In the meantime, we'd appreciate any answers for the questions below:

• If the name on CC does not match the name on POS signature pad after CC is swiped, why does it still get approved? Shouldn't merchant have an option to stop this transaction from being approved? 

• We ordered EMV card reader back in September, when should we expect it in the store? 

• Why should we responsible for lost chargebacks, if Shopify is late to ship compliant device? 

 

Regards,

Elena DiCriscio 

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Madison_Vahle
Shopify Partner
6 0 4

This is exactly my situation. I have customers who have received products AND payment back to them and no one cares how it hurts small businesses. Unbelievable.

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