Transaction Credits on Refunds Fees - After March 1, 2020, Shopify will no longer return this fee?!

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Tourist
3 0 8

Dear Shopify Community and Experts,

 

Shopify has always been crediting back transaction fees if a store owner makes a full refund to a customer - same procedure with many or probably all other payment processors including the greedy Paypal!!

 

That said, all of a sudden today January 20th, 2020 - we are receiving a notification from shopify indicating that Shopify will no longer be returning the fees as of March 1st, 2020 (see image at the bottom of this message, i have also put the text version of the email just in case)......my understanding here means if you refund an order to a customer, shopify will still charge you a transaction fee!! 

 

Questions

 

1. Has anyone / everyone received this email notifying that there will be this so called "Update on refund policy"?

 

2. In this shopify email regarding this new upcoming change, Shopify has put a link to its called "Shopify Terms of Service" - https://www.shopify.com/legal/terms?utm_source=exacttarget&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=support&utm...

 

no where there is a mention of transaction credit on refunds specific.....everything is general about "transaction fees"

 

3. Isn't this stealing in day light? i mean how would shopify start charging transaction fees to store owners if nothing is sold (fully refunded to a customer)? There are many legitimate reasons why refunds are being made but the most common ones is "high risk transactions" (we have tools to analyze transactions and sometimes you see a bunch of things that do not make sense in a customer order.....history of fraud, billing address does not match credit card address e.t.c)

 

Would appreciate shopify experts and community to provide more insights on this......we do feel this is some kind of an attempt for shopify to get store owners to use their shopify payments processor (which we are not using - we are on paypal), and probably message is sent to specific stores not everyone else!! We do a lot of refunds because we have been attacked by scammers lately very intensively, therefore we are very keen on our orders!!

 

 

 

Shopify-update-on-refund-fees.jpg

 

 

 

Text version of email here:

 

Dear XXXXXX,

We are making changes that will go into effect after March 1, 2020, including a change to our current Shopify Terms of Service that may affect you.

Upcoming changes:

  • We discovered a mistake we made with your account: When you process a refund, we have been paying you back your original transaction fee despite our terms of service saying that this won’t happen. We won’t be asking for any money back and unlike many payment processors, we won’t charge an additional fee to process a refund. After March 1, 2020, we will no longer return this fee. This is consistent with our existing Shopify Terms of Service that you agreed to already.

If you have any questions about these changes, please don’t hesitate to get in touch with us.

Thanks,
Shopify Support

 

© Shopify, 150 Elgin Street, Ottawa ON, K2P 1L4

Shopify.MailID:1-1.5e25cf18.6433354.5936ff5ef8b88ec7fd1b41bfe178b0d5

 

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New Member
2 0 8

I got the same email :( I came on the Shopify forums just to see if everyone else got the same email. I totally agree, this is ridiculous.

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New Member
1 0 4

Most online businesses that sell products have a return rate of between 25% and 35%.  I see absolutely no reason why Shopify should keep the commission on sales that turn into refunds.  Refunds are just part of the online retail landscape.  Why should the individual merchants foot the bill for the these refunds?  Merchants already bear the cost of the outward / return / 2nd outward shipping on returned items.  To have to pay Shopify commission more than once on a the sale of a product that's returned is ludicrous.  It's greedy and will inevitably put more online merchants out of business.  

Shopify, it's hard enough out there without you guys double dipping.  You need to rethink this as it's going to have a catastrophic effect on your community of merchants and then ultimately your own bottom line.  

 

This action is unjustifiable.  Please reconsider. 

 

 

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Tourist
6 0 11

I agree that this is outrageous!

People place orders on my store and sometimes decide to cancel before the item is shipped. My average product price is $600, so the lost fees when someone cancels under this new policy will be considerable.

 

The other thing that they are doing which sucks is adding another 1% to all international transactions.  Half of my large business is international. Since PayPal has been at 4.4% for several years, I have been pushing clients to pay with credit card via Shopify Payments. Now the delta (3.9% vs. 4.4%) for international is much smaller.

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Tourist
3 0 8

Glad to know other store owners got this notification also....at least part one of my problem is answered (as we felt like our store is being targeted).

 

That said, i do think if all store owners have received this notification ...we need to boycott this!! IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY BUSINESS SENSE, THERE ARE SO MANY LEGITIMATE REASONS STORE OWNERS HAVE TO REFUND ORDERS!! There are ton of high risky transactions daily, we cannot sell to everyone who make purchases on our store!

 

Hopefully someone official from shopify will jump on this thread, otherwise i am hoping it catches enough fire to get this update reverted....otherwise will have to pump this on social media channels until Shopify wakes up!

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Tourist
6 0 11

I just got off the phone with a Shopify rep.  I sure gave her an earful.  She said she would pass this along to management. This new policy regarding refunds will cost me several thousand dollars per year.

I would move to another CC payment provider, but then Shopify charges 2% on every PayPal purchase.  So they got me either way.

 

The crazy thing is, Stripe is the CC merchant processor that Shopify works through (its right there at the top of the Terms of Service page), yet Stripe does not have this crazy new keep-the-fee policy for refunds.

 

I do not think posting here in the forum is going to be enough. I think a lot of people should call Shopify Support and voice their displeasure with the policy. That stands a (small) chance of getting them to reconsider.

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Tourist
3 0 8

Definitely....posting here is not going to do much, my hope was to first verify if a lot of people have got this notification. Additionally i just wanted to know what their view is (so far it seems no one is definitely receiving this update positively as it is going to kill everyone's business).

 

From here, a ton of emails and calls to shopify support.....PLUS splashing this misconduct on social media channels will be the route to take, until Shopify gets a pain from their sales revenue, then they will realize the important of being fair.

 

This is just illegal - purely, not matter how they can put it that we have accepted their terms of service (THERE IS NOTHING IN THE TERMS OF SERVICE THAT SPEAKS SPECIFICALLY TO THE REFUND FEES / CREDITS OR THIS SO CALLED UPDATE STARTING MARCH 1ST)

 

I really hope all existing store front owners we will unite on this matter!! we love shopify platform for so many reasons but this update is definitely not something that we can live with!

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Excursionist
14 0 6

When it says, “we have been paying you back your original Shopify Payments fee” I assume that is referring to the 2.9% and NOT the .30 cents per transaction. So does this mean when I have refunded someone fully, I got back the 2.9%? 

 

So after March 1st, if someone spends $3,000 and then cancels the order, will I be out the 2.9%? 

 

What if I haven’t captured the order, if it’s just authorized?  And then it gets cancelled before capture?  So then there’s no actual refund involved-it’s just cancelling an authorization?  Is there still a fee involved there?

 

I recently had a customer order $6,200 worth of items in two orders.  Days later (after she received the items) she called and explained she had a "mental problem" brought on by a new medication and wanted to return the items.  In this case, would I be out the 2.9% of the $6,200?  ($179.80)  

 

I wonder if the credit card companies will allow us to charge a 3% fee on all cancelled orders (so as to cover that fee)....  

 

Thanks, 

Jann 

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Tourist
3 0 4

Yeah, so I just clarified this with Shopify. This means that you will be losing BOTH the 2.9% transaction fee AND the .30 cents per transaction. This will cover any/all transactions where the credit card has actually been charged. Their excuse is that these fees cover the costs of processing refunds.

Absolute BS and a money grab. Really disappointing to see Shopify follow PayPal's footsteps on this.

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Tourist
3 0 4

This is a HUGE issue that Shopify is trying to spin as an insignificant change. They are referencing their Terms of Service (Article 13 Section 9 of the Shopify Terms of Service) where is says that Shopify issues no refunds for fees. In the past, this was really a reference to subscription fees, app fees, chargeback fees etc. Now they are expanding that broad statement and saying it covers transaction fees for refunds now. They are trying to spin it like they've always had this policy and are only now choosing to enforce it. And furthermore, trying to say, "you should thank us- we won't retroactively charge you for any of the fees we refunded you in the past". Uh... thanks?

 

This is going to cost my business (and many others) thousands of dollars each year. We all know it doesn't cost much money to return funds back to a customer's credit card, so shopify will be majorly profiting on this move. Almost 3% of the full transaction, just to move digitally move the money back onto the original payment method? For larger orders in the thousands of dollars, Shopify will be keeping hundreds of dollars to cover the costs of this simple task.

 

I asked the customer service rep what I can do as a small business owner. He was vague, but claimed that these fees are charged by the issuing bank of the customer. He said some of these banks will issue refunds of transaction fees and others won't. I asked if Shopify would automatically refund me in the cases where the issuing bank did refund the transaction fee. He said he wasn't sure, but that as the business owner I would need to contact the customer  issuing bank on every single refund. This would require contacting the customer, having them provide the contact info for the bank handling their credit card, and then me calling their bank and asking if they would kindly refund the transaction fee. Are you kidding me? We have hundreds if not thousands of refunds throughout the year, I would have to hire a new employee to handle these phone calls....

 

I think this is a clear greedy move by Shopify and they are hoping no one will notice. We need to protest quickly and loudly to try and get this decision reversed.

 

I am currently looking at other options for payment processors as I truly feel this is an unethical position by Shopify.

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