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Lost Chargeback from 3D Secure Order, With Full Evidence Signed For By Customer

kickgame
Excursionist
24 0 9

I'm disgusted with Shopify!

 

We recently received a chargeback for £1,747.25 for an order that was 3D Secure, and signed for (with proof) by the customer.

 

We shipped the item to the address the customer checked out with.

 

We also provided proof of customer identification (their passport) and we provided proof of shipping (UPS Label & Tracking) as well as the customers signature.

 

But we somehow lost the dispute "The customer’s bank reviewed the chargeback response and has sided with them."

 

Shopify told me there is nothing they can do about it and we need to take it up directly with the bank. They then proceed to tell me they are unable to tell me who the customers bank is! So how exactly am i supposed to take it up with the bank? They are now advising nothing can be done at all, and we are welcome to contact their legal team.

 

We are considering legal action against Shopify now.

 

Evidence ProvidedEvidence Provided3D Secure3D SecureProof of DeliveryProof of Delivery

 

 

 

 

Replies 9 (9)
LC6
New Member
2 0 0

Hi, 

Have you had any luck with this ? This is also a major concern for me as a merchant looking to sell high value items on Shopify. With PayPal there is obviously seller protection which comes at a higher cost as a gateway, but with Shopify it seems they don't want to protect merchants at all. I would have thought 3D secure would eradicate problems like this/shift the liability so that the merchant isn't paying the price for the fraud.

kickgame
Excursionist
24 0 9

No luck, stay away from Shopify Payments they use Stripe as the backend for their processing who are completely useless when it comes to things like this.

I’m moving all my payment processing business to WorldPay.

Shopify Pay/Stripe are the real fraudsters here

Jason_Beacon
Shopify Partner
235 12 46

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience with Shopify pay. As Shopify has mentioned there is really nothing they can do with the chargeback because they are just the intermediary between the customer and the bank. Unfortunately, your legal action against Shopify would hold little no value since it's already written in the terms of service to protect Shopify's legal end.

The sad truth is that most banks are the real culprit here and they will give little to no reason at all on their decision process and will most likely side with the customer's end. Merchants mostly lose out here despite the evidence of proof of customer identity. 

Your best bet is to file a complaint against the bank or payment process with the better business bureau or the FCC and contact Stipe to see if you can escalate your claim. They will have to respond to you if you file a complaint.

I hope this helps you a bit to get your money back. 

 

Decrease fraudulent orders, stop chargebacks with Beacon. The most customizable fraud and risk management system built for Shopify businesses

https://apps.shopify.com/beacon
MJZatOMG
New Member
3 0 0

"Unfortunately, your legal action against Shopify would hold little no value since it's already written in the terms of service to protect Shopify's legal end."

Oh you think so?    Does Shopify's corporate counsel agree with your assessment if two or more clients file a complaint with a U.S. Attorney and initiate a class action suit?

Allow me to please help you with this arrogance... the class might actually lose but Shopify would PAY BIG... corporations don't get protection from gross negligence just because of their contract.

hM4
New Member
2 0 0

Thats really an interesting problem. I really like Shopify but this makes me a little nervous...

We had a different PSP and credit card acquirer in the past. We had 2 contracts, knew who is responsible for what and had their contacts in case of fraud.

Now we are using Shopify Payments and they fulfill both parts at once. So we have only one contract, and therefore I would expect that Shopify Payments is my credit card acquirer...?

I have neither a direct contract with Visa or Mastercard nor with an acquirer like PayOne.
"We and Shopify" are the only legal entities in the contract at Shopify Payments (or do I get this wrong?)

That being said... what's the strategy of Shopify to help their merchants?

The 3D-Secure procedure reverses the burden of proof ... The buyer has to prove that he has not entered the 3D-Secure code.

Right?

JCAndrea
Shopify Partner
40 2 10

I know this thread is old, but I would strongly advise against moving TO Worldpay. Nightmare support, and nightmare customer service. We are moving AWAY from them in one of our busniess systems.

valuablebook
Excursionist
12 0 20

Shopify is way out of the industry norm on this. I had someone order a book and it was delivered. I have proof of delivery from the post office. Shopify has a fully automated system that they use for chargebacks and effectively they don't get involved. As a result I lost the case and was charge their punitive $15 penalty fee. Their support in this area is comical, the support agents have no clue what they are talking about and their responses don't make any sense and are contradictory. 

I also sell through eBay, Amazon and another website run through Bigcommerce where I use paypal as my merchant processor. In all instances if you have proof of delivery you always win a dispute when the customer says they haven't received an item. Shopify believes they are best in class with their payments platform but they are way out of synch with the rest of the industry.

This is something they need to fix and not give cute responses to on their forum or when you ask for help.

jimpandaz
Tourist
3 0 1

I've been reading these replies and now makes sense the way Shopify duck and weave like boxers avoiding answering my questions around credit card payments and the security and who is liable for fraud.  They are very good at promoting Shopify Payments and how great it is, but stray the conversation away when it comes to who is liable.

 

It sucks that you got a charge back.  This should not really have been your fault.  3D Secure is meant to add this layer where the decision is made for you.  That is if it passes with a tick, then you should  send the item out and have peace of mind that you will not have a charge back.  It makes the decision for you.

 

I currently do use NAB Transact on Woocommerce.  So as long as the 3D Secure portion of the transition returns certain codes, then the bank is liable if it is fraud.  This module is written by a third party programmer.  So far I have not had any chargebacks.

 

Unfortunately the developer does not have this module written for Shopify and no one at Shopify can tell me the best way forward.  They just point me to an article that says, if the system detects fraud, then I should follow some guidelines like calling the buyer, emailing them and trying to evaluate the legitimacy of the transaction.  That is ridiculous, because it is very subjective and very time consuming.  Not all my employees would have the same decision making rules.  What someone believes is high risk someone else may consider it as low risk.  What a silly article!

https://help.shopify.com/en/manual/payments/fraud-prevention

 

All we are after is for a payment gateway to put their money where their mouth is and accept liability for fraudulent transactions.  Much like what NAB Transact does.  It is just a pity they do not have a plugin for Shopify.

jimpandaz
Tourist
3 0 1

Also I found this on the Stripe Website.  Does Shopify use Stripe?

stripe.com/docs/radar/rules#request-3d-secure

 

So if they did use Stripe as your payment provider, it seems like they should be liable.

Built-in rules to request 3D Secure

Using 3D Secure prompts customers to complete an additional authentication step before they can complete the purchase flow. If 3D Secure authenticates a payment, the liability for any fraud-related disputes for that payment typically shift from the merchant to the issuer. This means that in most cases, the merchant won’t be responsible for fraud costs on 3D Secure authenticated payments.