EU Import One Stop Shop (IOSS) support

London_Loves_Be
Tourist
6 0 2

@Dbaca We have a fair few shipments now that need uploading, from July 1st onwards, but I am very hesitant to do this until we know exactly what we need to show. Getting a little close to the wire as this needs to be done by this time next week at the worst. Any final advice would be most welcome at this point.

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AnyDevil
Excursionist
20 0 8

Hi Damon, I'm really trying to be patient as I do appreciate this IOSS system is new to everyone, but this is a pure politician answer, it addresses nothing, it's just playing for extra time. We're not debating whether a uni-state VAT collection method is a good idea. We're asking how to submit to your system in the correct manner so our customers won't get fees because we didn't include all the required information and payment.

We didn't create an IOSS intermediary service, your business did this - it chose to make itself in this area and to accept payment for providing that service.
Your clients rely on your business to provide 1) a clearly understandable service, that is 2) compliant with the requirements of the authorities you are dealing with.  There's been a lot of feedback so far, from more than one forum, that your service is confusing due to the lack of documentation, and now we have this second (potential) issue over the shipping VAT.

Based on what has been mentioned here (and also considering that Amazon and Shopify are both charging VAT on the shipping cost, which is how it always was pre-IOSS), it does look like your business (may) have made an error. Like someone else has said, if you've made a mistake, please do own it so we can move on from this without penalties being applied. If you don't know if your business has made a mistake, or you believe your service is correctly compliant, please mention this. Anything is more useful than the reply you've just given.

If an error has been made here, then I ask you to please note that your current upload document only has a field for the sales amount and the VAT amount. In that EU document, it advises that the product sales amount and the shipping amount should be separated so that the product intrinsic value is correct. Does that mean you would need to add a new column(s) to your upload file, relating to the shipping cost and the shipping VAT?

If you have business insurance to cover claims from your clients if your system turns out to be incorrect, please let me know and I'll proceed to upload the data in the form requested (just the product sale amount, no shipping cost or shipping VAT).  I assume we've probably signed away our rights to compensation in the legal agreement, however?

I would also like to mention that a few days ago I requested if you could elaborate regarding the need to submit uploads to you daily. You said it was something to do with the clearance - can you provide more detail, please? It's a very manual process to retrieve the data for these uploads so the upload frequency makes a big difference. Someone else mentioned here that they thought IOSS is only a monthly reporting thing. I've uploaded nothing so far because I'm still waiting for this situation to play out. It sounds like I'm far from the only business here that is waiting before they do their first upload.

Morning
Excursionist
20 0 7
Until Dbaca returns from reading the VAT Directive, we can at least go back to the source ourselves.
 
The directives (link1)(link2) and regs (link) that form the new VAT e-commerce rules amend the VAT Directive (link). The Taxable Amount (link) (articles 72-89 of the VAT Directive) has not been amended.
 
So VAT must be collected on shipping costs that the customer pays. IOSS consignments are no different to any other consignment in this regard.
 
Notes on how to determine the intrinsic value (which is a different thing, Dbaca) can be found on page 68 here: link
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Dbaca
Explorer
127 0 31
Firstly I will say that the template is clear on what we need for the upload. We also have a shopify app that will allow you to avoid this step and we will roll it out early next week.

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Morning
Excursionist
20 0 7

“If an error has been made here, then I ask you to please note that your current upload document only has a field for the sales amount and the VAT amount. In that EU document, it advises that the product sales amount and the shipping amount should be separated so that the product intrinsic value is correct. Does that mean you would need to add a new column(s) to your upload file, relating to the shipping cost and the shipping VAT?”

@AnyDevil I don’t think there’s any need to separate a sale into goods and shipping for a VAT return, or for supplying that info to an intermediary filing that VAT return. The separation necessary for intrinsic value will be explicit in the electronic data that goes with the postal consignment.

Though maybe @Dbaca could answer your direct question directly.

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AnyDevil
Excursionist
20 0 8

Thanks very much for clarifying. Now to wait for Dbaca to acknowledge your previous message...and half of what I wrote in my message.

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Dbaca
Explorer
127 0 31
I am confused.. What do you need clarification about? Get. s hold of me directly and we can have a call. damon@crossborderit.com. I will give you my number and we can talk.
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Dbaca
Explorer
127 0 31
Please contact me directly. I know the answer hear but I am getting trolled . Please if you are my customer I will answer. Contact me at damon@crossborderiit.com and we will get a call together.
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Morning
Excursionist
20 0 7

Is it trolling to point out a pretty egregious error made by a representative of an intermediary - and therefore someone in a position of perceived authority on the matter? Perhaps I went too far in asking you to correct yourself, but given your position as the representative of an intermediary I had thought providing accurate advice to your clients and others might be a good idea.

Dbaca
Explorer
127 0 31
I stand by my statement that the VAT is levied on the cost of the goods.

I have been in international trade for the last 15 years and I have taught international trade and Supply Chain for ten years. All of these rules are interpretive. If you find a rule in a countries tariff it can at some point be interpreted differently even if you have shipped fine with that method many times. The only way around this is to have customs authorities file a ruling which applies just for your company. Because of the interpretive nature of trade rules and the fact that the IOSS is new I will not make an absolute statement.

I want you to keep in mind that my company is liable for making sure that these fees are levied correctly. I would be very safe If everyone paid on shipping as well. The tax authorities will absolutely accept this higher sum.

In order to determine the meaning of the legislation we spoke to the tax authorities , Customs and our independent tax firm. Each of them agreed that the VAT is levied on the cost of the goods without shipping however there are caveats that you see in the legislation if shipping is bundled with the price. They will except payment on the bundled shipping. I have asked the authorities and counsel.

I will not make an absolute statement I can only go on what the authorities have told me. If the interpretation changes I will let everyone know. You are also free to go to your lawyer or reach out to an EU tax authority, or any other resource that you have.

I appreciate your focus on this but I cannot keep defending this. The opinions are not mine and I did not come up with it out of thin air. I realize that this frustrates you because your interpretation is different but please understand that we are in constant contact with the authorities and we get other opinions as well. I can only do my due diligence. I am also not an anonymous person on this board and I will not make a binding legal pronouncement. Please everyone I am not an attorney and I am not making legal claims


Please feel free to check with customs, Tax authorities and any legal counsel. We can all just do our homework. This is all that we could do to clarify this issue. I have done due diligence on my side.

One way or another we submit filings next week. If someone from Brussels or any of the other member states have interpreted this differently we will know immediately. I will also communicate it immediately. This will not be egg on my face as I am not the one interpreting this. I have tens of thousands of shipments we are facilitating and it is in my best interest to get this right as well.

If you want to express your frustrations with this opinion I am happy to have a call with you.

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