Shopify says it’s the card holder, the card holder says it’s shopify.
either way we are the ones holding the bag
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We sell health products too. Big ticket items. There is no winning this and this will just be a growing problem. One banker told me to just blend chargeback costs into our prices. Great I’ll forecast being robbed everyday and just raise my prices.
If I go into the bank and rob the bank for 10,000 I go to jail. If I go online and buy an item for $10,000 and file a chargeback after I get the item it’s ok.
let’s file a lawsuit. A class action one. All merchants are losing here
Are we a retailer or are we investigators? Why do we have to do all this work since the bank or shopify can’t. We sell products and that’s what we are good at. Now we have to be criminal detectives on each account to ensure we are ok. Why?
class action lawsuit
the card holder cannot say it is Shopify since they are the one asking for the chargebacks with the credit card companies
Where it does not connect is that the credit card does not seem to get our side. and maybe ist is Shopify that does not transfer the info we give them to fight the chrageback because a credit card company told us it was the case. And when I confront shopify, they keep saying I have to find out, will get back to you and never heard from them. So, to organize the transfer of our case to credit crads might be staff and time consuming and they figure, oh well, they will take it as a loss, but thing is, it forces us to cancel suspicious or large orders (this is what we do) and Shopify looses a little here but maybe better for them
There is a flaw for sure. If anyone contacts shopify (do chat) and save the conversation and maybe after this happening, we can think of something ? Also, contact also the credit card companies yourself with your version. People have to try stuff like we did as well
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We have never won a chaergeback- no matter how much evidence we submit and how obvious it is that we are being scammed they ALWAYS side with the customers- once we had an IG wannabe influenced do an unboxing live of the order she made with us- an actual video of her receiving the shipment and opening it- her husband saw the charge on her bill and filed a fraud claim- she told us that it was a mistake and she would contact the bank to remove it. We filed our response including the video that SHE posted of the shipment and we still lost. I mean how much more evidence could we have given? Its definitely an issue and SHOPIFY does nothing to help. Its interesting to read here that they might not even be submitting the evidence. Very disappointing very frustrating.
Ask her the money back, check, wire or you can open a charge on shopify, that is doable and get her to pay it
Honestly the bank will almost always opt to side with the customer because that person is also their customer and they want to keep them happy. The best way to deal with chargebacks is to prevent them from happening. In this instance, you did about all of what you can do.
We struggled with this for a long time, so we built our own solution using AI/ML to model the patterns and try to stop these kinds of shipment issues from happening. I’d be happy to chat and discuss with you further.
Our app can be found here if you’d like to check it out on your own: https://apps.shopify.com/deliverlitics?st_source=autocomplete
Actually, not true. I asked myself for chargebacks on defective items in my life and there were a lot of back and forth between Visa, the seller and I. I had to give all kind of proofs to be able to get my money back.
The problem is (if you read all the conversations instead of popping in to push your app) is that Shopify does not give the answer, proofs we have to the credit card company. So, the credit card company thinks we agree to the chargeback and refund. The best to call the credit card company with the date of the transaction, etc and give our version and also create a bad file on these crooks. Because they cannot pull that garbage too many times once someone raise the flag, you see
And very annoying when we have problems to always have people popping in with their apps to sell to us, and worse, no connections with the issues. You are not solving the problems. Make an app that does send the answer to the credit card company and maybe we might have an interest. Sorry to sound rude, but it is annoying to get these type of answers
The banks do a good job asking for proof to discourage fraud and spend a ton doing so. But, the customer in this case is their concern. As long as the claim seems legitimate and doesn’t raise any major red flags, the bank will process. You are correct that Shopify doesn’t do a great job communicating to the card company. But the issue still stands that the opportunity exists for a fraudster to attempt an exploit.
I would challenge your claim that we are not solving problems. If you have less of these orders then you have less claims. You cited your methodology of not allowing orders over $150 for new customers and only shipping to billing addresses. Those are all ways of preventing the issue from occurring. But I would consider those solutions akin to a blunt instrument. CAC is extremely high, and repurchase rates across D2C products is very low compared to major retailers. So if you think you need to get a lot of juice out of the squeeze then you run the risk of excluding legitimate customers that might be ordering a product for a party, or some other event where it’s very normal to order a lot at once. All stores are also different and some sell items that are $600-$800 per item where a person can order two and still be very much in the range of normal, while exposing the merchant to a huge chargeback risk. This cornucopia of issues is why we developed the product to scan addresses based on a plethora of data points to identify risky orders and stop them before they can turn into a chargeback claim.That said, we are in the business of problem solving.
As I said in my previous post, we built this app because we were struggling w/ the same issue on our stores. So far, it’s been very helpful to us, and I wanted to share that. But if you think there are other features and products we should build, I would love to have a conversation with you. Your knowledge of this topic is in the top 1% and it would be great to see if we can build something that solves your problems as well
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I do not agree with you. Because when we called ourselves the credit card companies, they said, they never got the responses we gave to shopify against the customers.
For example, you ship an item 300$, tracking shows as delivered, then the customer says I love it and asks if you have other colors, you say yes. THEN, the customer asks for a chargeback saying she never received… ?? you have the exchanges about the item she received and loved, the tracking that shows delivered and sigbed. Who wins in this case ? US, but no, because when we sent the proofs to shopify (the answer is in their system, from what I get, the credit card does not get this answer and at this point, they think you accepted the chargeback. But we now call the credit card company as well and mess up their credit real good
And not true, I hasked for chargebacks twice in my life and a lot of questionning and back and forth between the seller and I to the credit card company
p.s, sorry about typing mistakes, it corrects after I write :0
I asked not hasked + others.
It is very bad, Makes it extremely hard on small businesses! You can literally show them the best evidence in the world with all the documents and pics. They will side with them. A customer said they didn’t receive their order UPS took a picture of it on their porch with house # in pic and I submitted a Google maps pic of the house matching Ups pic. They sided with them. Small businesses take it in the chin 95% of the time, pretty sad.
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Also long as they all get paid, they don’t care about us! Pretty clear
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We’ve had a chargeback that was made in error by the customer and we still lost it. We’ve had a chargeback made by the customer’s bank in error and we still lost it (however we later received compensation from them in lieu of an explanation). We’ve also had a chargeback from a customer who probably decided they didn’t like their credit card statement. In every case we had confirmation emails or replies from them, proof of delivery etc. The card issuers do not care if you lose the product/service you sold along with the payment and chargeback fee, and they are not accountable.
Call the credit card company and report that transaction was fraudulent from your account.. give the message clear, Don’t bleep with me!
Why are we not doing anything about it? This is not fair and our silent is what’s making it worse. These are business that should be protected. We should protest about it.
You’re absolutely right — this kind of situation is a business killer, and it’s unacceptable that we’re left vulnerable under policies that clearly favor the customer, even when we do everything by the book. We shouldn’t stay silent about it. This isn’t just frustrating — it’s a pattern of exploitation driven by greed.
Chargebacks were intended to prevent fraud, not to punish honest sellers for customers’ indecisiveness or mood swings. When banks side with customers without holding them accountable — and still collect a fee from us — it’s clear who they’re really protecting. These aren’t neutral systems; they profit from these decisions.
We are legitimate businesses, not disposable service providers or easy targets. We need to start protesting these policies and calling for change — legal action, collective voices, petitions, whatever it takes. This system needs to be challenged. If we don’t push back, we’ll keep bleeding money and dignity under a broken system that treats small businesses like collateral damage.
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It is more like shopify never reply to the bank, because a customer did try and work with us, and the bank said that shopify never provided that we obviously sent it to shopify. Which make sense because some charged back we lost in the past we had made everything right, it was obvious the customer was a scammer however he still got his charge back.
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I’ve commented on this subject before, but I think I can provide some clarity on what’s happening with bank decision making processes in these situations. We’ve had 3 chargebacks that we lost, and all of them were genuine purchases made by customers. The cardholder name, billing address and sender’s message to the recipient all matched. The customers agreed with me that they were genuine. We still lost them. One was PayPal, and two were with the Commonwealth Bank of Australia (CBA), one in 2023 and one two weeks ago - this one’s ongoing. The PayPal chargeback was mistakenly lodged by the customer as they didn’t recognise our business name on the statement. OK no problem, it was fixed.
The bank chargebacks were a different story. In both cases, the customers cards had been hacked, and the BANK flagged all transactions over a period as fraudulent. I knew the bank was CBA so I was able to do something. In a lot of cases you won’t find out who the card issuer is. As I wrote above, we lost the chargebacks. So I complained directly to CBA. They did an internal investigation (chuckle) and found in favour of themselves. So I lodged a complaint with the Australian Financial Complaints Authority (AFCA), and after a lot of me asking a LOT of questions about their processes and earlier decision, the CBA agreed to pay $250 for me to go away without a reason. The chargeback fee was $25 and the customer repaid the original transaction amount.
Exactly the same thing is happening with the current chargeback. The customer repaid the original amount, I complained to CBA without an adequate response and I’ve lodged a complaint with AFCA, referencing my 2023 complaint. So it seems that banks find in favour of their customers, as they looking for the path of least resistance. Why antagonise your customer when you can take money from some anonymous merchant?
Regardless of the outcome, I’m going to lobby some politicians to see if I can move them to do something, as it’s our money, not theirs.
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I commented elsewhere on this thread, but Shopify is sending the info, and the bank either doesn’t match it to you or doesn’t care.
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